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Direct response guru Brian Kurtz joins The Copywriter Club Podcast to talk copy. But interviewing Brian isn't like interviewing most people. He's a bit like a jazz musician who takes your question and riffs on it—sharing all kinds of great stories and advice in the process. You just let him go. In this episode, Kira and Rob asked Brian about his article, The Next Million Dollar Copywriter, in addition to questions about mastermind groups and what baseball can teach us about copywriting (listen to the end of this admittedly long interview for his fantastic answer). This is one of our favorites and once you listen, you'll understand why. Special bonus: Brian broke our record for the most people and stuff mentioned in a single episode. Check them all out. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Mel Martin Gene Schwartz Parris Lamprolous How to Write a Good Advertisement by Victor Schwab Breakthrough Advertising Bencivenga Bullets Boardroom Marty Edelston Jim Rutz David Deutch Clayton Makepeace Jim Punkre Judy Weiss Joan Throkmorton Kim Krause Schwalm Carline Cole Bill Jayme Dick Benson Gordon Grossman Titans of Direct Response Dan Kennedy Eric Beteul Arthur Johnson Ken McCarthy Perry Marshall Jay Abraham Joe Sugarman Greg Renker Fred Catona The Advertising Solution Jeff Walker The next million dollar copywriter John Carlton’s course You may not know it when you see it Genius Network National Enquirer Dan Sullivan’s Strategic Coach Mariano Rivera TheLegendsBook.com BrianKurtz.me Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 22, as we chat with marketing titan and direct response expert, Brian Kurtz, about working with A-list copywriters like Gary Bencivenga and Gene Schwartz, what the next million dollar copywriter will be doing, what copywriters need to know today about lists and direct mail, and what baseball can teach us about marketing. Kira: Hey, Brian. Hey, Rob. How are you? Rob: Kira, Brian, we’re thrilled to have you. Brian: I like those fascinations, you know? Gene Schwarz and Mel Martin and a host of other copywriters would be proud of your teaser bullets. Rob: It might not be quite the level of something Parris would write but we sure try. Brian: At Boardroom, we call those fascinations and it’s something that ... and you mention Parris Lampropoulos, who’s one of my close friends and a copywriter who we made millions together at Boardroom and he has copy cubs that he works with and I believe he still ... One of the first things he does, he makes them read Victor Schwab’s book and makes them copy the first three chapters of Breakthrough Advertising by Gene Schwartz, hand write copy. One of the things Parris does, I think for the first big chunk of time that he trains his copywriters is teaching them how to write bullets, teaching them how to write fascinations. Kira: Interesting. Brian: Don’t worry about the body copy. Don’t worry about the narrative. Don’t worry about the storytelling. Get the copy, get the bullets down. Gary Bencivenga called his newsletter Bencivenga Bullets. It’s sort of like getting the technique down in a way so that you start really thinking like your prospect, what’s going to get under their skin,